Wednesday, April 11, 2007

Hoyazo has lost his fucking mind

Ok. Now normally I think Hoyazo is a decent player and he has a long history of cashing and his thinking is usually sound. However when you question his stupidity in a hand he really goes off the deep end in justifying his brilliance. I mean is he fucking Cinderella and if he admits he is a donkey his fat ass will turn into a pumpkin?

I mean first off ATo is a fucking retard hand and why he is raising it in the first place I have no idea. He does not mention anything such as how much the raise was, what position he was in, etc, etc..

WillWankah the alleged donkey makes a good analysis that I totally agree with. Hoy was in bad position. Hoy had a shitbox hand. Hoy raised like a moron. The blinds were small. Will had a very small call to make and the implied odds in this hand turned out to be HUGE since Hoyazo then compounded his pre-flop donkery with the ultimate in donkery and not only gets felted with second pair which apparently is "Hitting the flop hard" for him.. but thinks any of the play from the initial raise is defendable?
I mean come on Hoyazo.. when you play weak crappy hands out of position OF COURSE your going to get into trouble.. and when you play them even WORSE on the flop then forgettaboutit. You brought that hand on yourself and nobody else played poorly.

Then the hilarity ensues to no end when people try and make the point that maybe he never should have been in the hand to begin with and possibly Will did not make a bad call.

Knowing that you will go th the felt with hands like TPTK, make it +EV to call your raises with semi-junk. Now who is the donkey?
-- Blinders


An interesting comment, Blinders. Only problem is, it is hugely -EV to call preflop raises against me with JT. So I guess that makes the guy who calls the preflop raises from me with JT the donkey. To answer your question.
-- Hoyazo


See the emphasis point here: call raises against MEEEEEEEEEEE.. how could you? Totally inconceivable. Someone playing against me the all powerful Hoy!! Total bullshit answer and not correct. In addition it is HUGELY -EV to raise ATo in early position and not even including calling your entire stack off with second pair.
I mean seriously how can making $1500 on a what $90 call be -EV???!?

If you asked me what hand I would rather raise in EP JT s000ted or ATo I would answer JT s00ted every time. It has much better chance of making a strong hand on the flop.. and the hands that are likely to call are not hands that have me totally dominated. I would rather have JT vs AK than AT vs AK. Think of the hands that are likely to call an EP raise. No question about it.

Anyway.. although I respect Hoyazo and his abilities at large scale MTT games I think he is losing it.. His usual excellent analysis of tricky situations like playing quads that we all face every other hand has degenerated into anyone who beats him being a donkey. It is a sad, sad, day and I mourn the passing of our good friends poker skills.

18 Comments:

Blogger StB said...

Have to agree with you. A To is the most overplayed hand in net poker. I would rather take a chance with the JTs as well.

But there is a time to raise with the hand, when conditions are right. But you will only go busto when you get carried away with it. If you bet out and it is called, you better get ready to fold on the turn.

12:23 PM

 
Blogger Matt Silverthorn said...

There is a reason I christened ATo "The Lamer" many moons ago.

12:58 PM

 
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Man. And I remember the days when CJ used to brag about how well you handle a little good natured ribbing. I guess ten more bankroll bustouts later has finally taken its toll on you. Now there's something that really is sad.

And Waffie, calling preflop raises with JT will never magically become +EV just by repeating it over and over again. Sorry but I can't change that. :)

1:54 PM

 
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Btw about stb's comment above, make no mistake I love to open-raise with JTs, I do it all the time. But calling someone else's EP or MP raise with it? Please.

1:56 PM

 
Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

HAHA! Keep justifying your horrid play Hoyazo. Maybe you might even believe it someday..

2:10 PM

 
Blogger DP said...

soooooooted

2:17 PM

 
Blogger Bloody P said...

Sometimes when we touch/the honesty's too much.

2:17 PM

 
Blogger WillWonka said...

For the record... Hoy's AT was also sooooooted... although none of his suit hit the flop..

I've admited many times now that limp/calling with JTs is not necessarily an +EV move... but again.. given the stack sizes and my perceived thoughts on his raising range made it ok in my book.

Like I said in my blog.. who was the donkey in this hand.... both of us...

But I also said given those same conditions... I'm calling with JTs.

2:53 PM

 
Blogger The Poker Enthusiast said...

I seem to remember a time not long ago when a Hoy called my preflop raise with JT unsuited when I held AA. The flop hit him hard and he busted me. You can't have it both ways.

3:06 PM

 
Blogger bayne_s said...

At some point Hoy has called us all Donkeys. Two most likely ways to trigger it are:

1) Re-raise Hoy pre-flop with a better hand and don't get outdrawn.

2) Call a Hoy Raise pre-flop or post flop and then call a later all-in bet when you now have the better hand.

-EV pre-flop calls of Hoy (or Fuel)
in big stack situations have huge implied aggression odds and our always +ER (expected rant)

3:13 PM

 
Blogger slb159 said...

okay, so what did we all get outts this post? bloody P obv is a Dan Hill fan...but not much else.

3:21 PM

 
Blogger BuddyDank said...

And the pot calls the kettle black.

3:27 PM

 
Blogger smokkee said...

i think i'd rather go to the flop with ATsOOted over JTsOOted all day.

but, definitely treading carefully OOP with 2nd pair on the flop.

3:43 PM

 
Blogger smokkee said...

to clarify my last comment:

ATs vs JTs is a 3-1 fav last time i checked.

3:46 PM

 
Blogger StB said...

I will call with JTs in the BB just about all the time. I will call in position depending on who is raising.

3:47 PM

 
Blogger Wes said...

You tourney players are fucking nits. I can't believe you don't raise with ATs UTG.

6:52 PM

 
Blogger Raveen said...

my advice whenever you get a hand...raise it will lead to an outcome every time....

9:45 PM

 
Blogger Garthmeister J. said...

Wes wins!

7:10 AM

 

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