Wednesday, July 28, 2004

Bits and Pieces and I love Anisotropy!!

Ok. First off I have a question for the experienced NL players there. I was reading Anisotropy and his success at $25 NL interested me. So I am down a little tonight. I decide I will go ahead and try it. I put my $25 in (sort of like playing $40 at a 1/2 table), and start playing. Now the cards were in love with me I admit. I flopped alot of good stuff. I even got some good draw hands, which is really hard in NL. Anyway, about 1/2 hour later I am up to $125 and loving it. The second to last hand I played against someone who kepy calling me a rookie. I had K9s and he had J8o or something. Scary flop of AQQA. He goes all in with like 14$. I decide to call because I want to lose and go to sleep. Anyway, I win with K high. He was SOOOOOOO pissed. Anyway, here are my two NL questions:

A) Does it make sense to see more flops in NL. If it only costs me .25 (I.E. Less than an Ante in 1/2) then should I not see if Q3 might flop QJ3 or QQ3 or QQQ or some other nice hand for Q3? I mean look at the pot odds. It cost me less than 1/4 of 1 bet, and if I make it the implied odds are infinate. I was called a rookie looser for getting Q3 two pair, and calling someone down to the river while he bet 2 aces at 4$ per round.

B) This one is a little more shaky. I go in with 9-2h. I get a nice flop with 2 hearts. Now, I am getting 3 people action in the pot. Each one is adding 4$ per round, and I am the Button. Now, from an Implied Odds and Odds standpoint, am I not correct in calling? It is one thing if they put me all in and I have not made my flush, or if they bet the pre-flop with 4-5$. However, am I not right in playing this if they keep it reasonable?

So anyway the lucky (true) rookie (true) left the tables with $100 profit. Like 50BB of what I usually play. Another question I have. Why do people get mad when you play flushes in general? I have made THE MOST money playing flushes. There are two big reasons for this: A. When I make it I am 90% of the time the best hand and can tell it. and B) NOBODY respect someone on a flush draw at Empire. I freaking had the 3 diamonds on the table, and I bet $5, and I get raised $15 with 2 pair!!!! I mean you do not have to be a chicken, but cmon! So anyway, this rookie, looser, idiot, lucky, fish, dummy is going to sleep. Have a nice night!

Uncle says "One Last Thing" -- I am going to play more $25 NL. I am going to treat it like a $20/1 NL Tourney. Either I win and make alot of money, or lose and hey.. I was on the bubble, and so be it. I figure it is a better use of my money than a tourney. I will probably play the $25 NL first, then a Tourney to keep in practice for the WSOP, and then if it has been a good night some limit.



4 Comments:

Blogger Sloejack said...

Unlike limit, it's a little harder to determine your implied odds on chasing the flushes and and straights. The obvious reason is, that a smart person will not give you pot odds to make those draws. Obviously the moron with J8o had you pegged as a newb, probably because a lot of your play looks and smells like how you would play limit games.

I would be a little more careful with your starting hands only because you don't want to become so invested in a hand that you may have to lay down because it could put you all-in with nothing if you decide you're "invested in the pot." I believe that position and betting are the major key differences in NL than limit. you want to be careful in early position because your bet or raise, could get re-raised easily to the point where it is not proper for you to call. Late position is obviously a little easier. Once you've seen how the rest of the table has acted, you can make the C,R|F decision pretty easily.

Mostly experience and study will help you make the adjustments needed to play NL. As far as people getting mad at you for making your hands, well obviously that's their problem (especially if they're trying to push you around with nothing) but keep in mind, a good player will put you on the draw, and unlike limit, they can make you pay dearly to miss it.

To directly answer your questions, my feeling on it is that pre-flop if the table is giving you odds and you're in late enough position you don't expect a raise, then it's technically probably correct to call. However, one of the worst things that could happen in those cases is for you to get a piece of the flop that looks likely to be the best of it and then have kicker trouble at showdown.

With the flush draw question, I already hinted at this. If you can get the odds to play, then again you're technically correct to do so, however it is in the best interest of your opponent to bet you out, and if he's smart he will at least make it unfavorable for you to make a call. So for example lets say you have the odds on the flop to see the turn, looking ahead, you have to evaluate your opponent and decide if they are likely to give you odds to see the river as well. If the answer is yes, then by all means. It's a feel thing. If I figure out that someone is on a draw, I make it as expensive and incorrect as possible for them to chase it. Sometimes they get it anyway, but they've made a mistake and I can exploit that.

4:52 AM

 
Blogger Sean said...

I'm going to agree with what SloeJack has said. In NL, I've found that my starting hand requirements have actually tightened up, not loosened. I will, however, at a passive (not much preflop raising) table, limp in late position with any pocket pair, suited ace or king, and suited connectors down to 76s. I'll still raise with the hands I'd normally raise with. However, the important thing to realize is that, in NL, unless the players are incredibly dumb, you're rarely getting the right odds to draw. "Draws are death"...I think TJ said that. You have to be disciplined enough to fold your flush draw when 2 people in front of you make pot sized bets (or more) because you really don't have the right odds.

Congrats on your winning at the NL tables and thanks for reading my blog. I appreciate it and perhaps we'll sit together for a session in the future.

6:59 AM

 
Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

I agree with both of you, but like I said, if it is only costing me .25-.50 to get into the pot I am gonna take a peak with almost anything.

Now, I had the bright idea of mentioning this to the idiots that were losing ALOT of money to my flushes, and then they started raising the pre-flop bets to 3-5$. I would fold off of these. The one guy who really hated my flushes did this twice, the second time someone called him. He had K8o and got creamed by trips or something. I laughed at him and told him not to play badly because of me.. heh.

If I hit 4 to a flush on the flop, I am willing to call a 4$ raise, because the guy who is betting probably has a made hand (AA, KK, Trips) which will lose to my draw. I also think I have decent odds to make my flush with 2 cards left. What is it 2-1 and 4-1 once I get to 4 cards to a flush? Anyway, my next post will probably ask people if I am flush crazy!!! I have been wondering this since anytime I make any decent money of a flush someone swears at me and says I am the worst Hold Em player in the world.

9:18 AM

 
Blogger doubleas said...

I'm not sure you can make a mistake at these Party tables, but with that said, I'll still give my opinions. In NL, I believe that you have to play less hands, but push hard when you do play. The problem with playing Q3 or 92, it that if you do hit the flop, you may still be behind. You could flop two pair or even 3 of a kind but still have only a few outs.

As far as chasing flush draws after the flop, you need to consider that if others are also calling, that they may also be on flush draws or even bigger draws (full house). So even if you hit your 92 flush, you could still lose to a nut flush, or if the board pairs, you could lose to the full house. Be careful about drawing to the non-nut hand.

You're winning, so you may have found the perfect way to play the $25NL game, especially if they will pay you off every time you hit. I am still trying to adjust to Party tables myself, so don't listen to me too much.

8:02 AM

 

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